WEBVTT 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:13.000 Yeah. 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:40.000 If we go ahead and go on. And one of the things we can say right away is, Hey, we're still some folks still arriving, and we're gonna hang on for a minute or 2. 00:04:40.000 --> 00:05:10.000 I need to uncover my keyboard. 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:34.000 Did you wanna go ahead and start Rachel? 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:51.000 Sure. All right. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to this zoom session this is meant to be an informational session on the draft rule for regarding continuing education, for licensed professionals. 00:05:51.000 --> 00:06:01.000 So the information for both you as licensed professional geologists and all for us as we continue through the the rule drafting process. 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:04.000 I want to just introduce, I guess. 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:05.000 Let people know who has been working on the draft rule. 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:15.000 Myself, Rachel Walker, principal geologist with Mandela, Associates. 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:21.000 John Noel is. Do you wanna introduce yourself, John? 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:25.000 Yeah, thank you. I'm geologist with Atlas technical consultants here in Indianapolis. 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:34.000 Yeah, and we are actually board members of the license professional the Indiana License Personal Board. 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:40.000 License, professional geologist board, and we also had 3 other members of a continuing Education Committee. 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:49.000 We had Kevin Stronko, Rob Ash Resources, Matthew Dagan, with Stantek and Rachel Taylor, who is with item, and that was the group that was our work group. 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:59.000 On producing this draft rule, and we wanted to go through a little bit of background on this. 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:05.000 I'm not sure how much history people are aware of of getting. C. 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:10.000 Continuing education, or ce enacted in the State. 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:19.000 The professional geologist and Indiana group has been working towards establishing continuing education, requirement for licensed professional geologists. 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:36.000 For several decades, and after a number of attempts in the legislative session in early 2022 they had a sponsor in the form of Senator Dorio, who sponsored the update to the statute, and that was a Senate 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:43.000 enrolled at 2, 78, and let me see if I can show. 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:49.000 Where did I share a screen? There it is. 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:59.000 And 3, and share alright. 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:05.000 John, let me know if you're seeing, does it? 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:06.000 Yup! 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:15.000 Send it in old act. Okay, so this was the enrolled at 2 78 that went through the 170 s General Assembly, and it did make some a variety of changes. 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:27.000 But the change of interest to people here to this evening is right down the bottom here, where we start at this section 11. 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:32.000 This was the new section to read as follows, before July the first 2024. 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:36.000 The Board shall adopt rules in accordance with IC. 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:40.000 25, 1, 4, and I will talk about that shortly. 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:55.000 To require license, professional geologists to obtain continuing education in geological sciences as it condition of licensing renewal, and set forth the conditions, requirements, and implementation of the continuing education program. 00:08:55.000 --> 00:09:00.000 So that's the job of the Board itself, of which John and I are members. 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:15.000 The continuing education requirements adopted under this section must allow a licensed professional geologist to receive full credit for continuing education courses completed in a state other than Indiana, so you don't have to do courses. 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:35.000 Justin, Indiana, the continuing education requirements adopted under this section do not apply to a licensed professional geologist until after the first full license renewal cycle, beginning one year after the final adoption of the rules under this section what that means is the rules 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:46.000 will be adopted bye, bye. July the first, 2024, and then there is a one year at least. 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:55.000 After that before you start having to perform your continuing education. 00:09:55.000 --> 00:10:03.000 This one's a little. It's a little tricky with the wording, and I think we will come back to that one of the questions that people probably have is, when does it stop but what I wanted to do was to give you the overview. 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:13.000 Of this is the section that now requires us per statute to put together rules for governing, continuing education, for, licensed professional geologists. 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:24.000 So we are now required by by law to that. So you start with the statute, and then you go to the rule. 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:41.000 So what we send around, or should say what Dean sent around last week was the draft rule that we had to draft in accordance with this statute, and also with the accordance with IC. 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:46.000 25, 1, 4, and people probably wondering what is IC. 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:50.000 25, 1, 4. I am going to stop sharing quickly here. 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:57.000 And bring that up, because this is actually gonna answer a lot of questions that people may have. 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:58.000 It's a 6 page document. So it's it's not a difficult read. 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:19.000 I recommend that everyone reads this as part of their understanding of what we are trying to do or what we are required to do, as part of this draft rule for continuing education. 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:20.000 Yep, we can see that, and then, and Rachel, may I? 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.000 Can you see this? John? Okay, great. I just wanna make sure. 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:25.000 Sure! 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:26.000 If I may, just as you introduce this, which is excellent. 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:46.000 The you know it's it for me. This whole process has been a learning curve on Indiana's statutes and regulations, but this is the statute that that, as the title says, is applies to continuing education for for it's not written there but for professions, and 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:49.000 occupations. So it this, you know, this controls continuing. 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:54.000 Ed, for not only licensed professional geologists, but surveyors, engineers. 00:11:54.000 --> 00:12:00.000 And there's a whole slew in Indiana of occupations and professionals that have have a continuing education, requirement. 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:05.000 So thanks, Rachel. 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:14.000 Yeah, so we have to our rules that we draw for continuing education have to be in accordance with 25, 1, 4. 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:17.000 And this provides, and you'll see that if you looked at the draft rule there's a lot of references to 25, 1, 4. 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:30.000 And this is the reason why, because it gives, like this overview guiding of what approved organizations are for providing continuing education. 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:36.000 There is quite a list here, colleges and teaching as institutions, national organizations of practitioners, etc. 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:40.000 Etera and then down the bottom, says any other organizational individual approved by the Board so there's quite a list. 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:50.000 Quite a range of oh, yeah, continuing education. 00:12:50.000 --> 00:13:08.000 That would be sort of an approved organization. And then there's also the discretion of the Board, and the idea is to leave this as flexible as possible, so that you know the Board can choose to approve other entities and other courses. 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:21.000 As as needed. There's various other sections, and we're gonna go through each and every section but it's a pretty straightforward, a little piece of rule here. 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:24.000 That sort of guides a lot of what we're doing. 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:29.000 Probably the see the other thing. Let's see. 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:33.000 So on, statements of compliance. So everything we do for complying with C. 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:39.000 Continue, education is going to have to accord with 25, 1, 4. 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:41.000 I know there's probably some questions about, you know, auditing compliance. 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:55.000 There's there's requirements here that anywhere between 1%, but less than 10% can be audited by the board, and that's at the discretion of the license. 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:58.000 Professional geologist, board, distance, learning, methods. 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:14.000 You have to allow at least a half of all continuing education requirements to be by distance, learning methods, and I think under our rule we had no limitation on that, because we realize that this is the new reality is a lot of people do these via distance. 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:33.000 Learning. There is a hardship waiver, that is, for people who are either in service in the armed forces of the United States, have an incapacitating illness or injury, or other circumstance determined by the border agency. 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.000 So some of these been, you know, downsized, having financial hardships, you know. 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:44.000 There is a way to apply to the Board for a hardship. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:54.000 Waiver, and then there are other rules here under 25, 1, 4 that govern failures to comply, licensed suspensions and reinstatement requirements. 00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:00.000 And that's why a lot of this detail is already here, and we did not repeat it into the draft. 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:04.000 The draft rule for licensed geologist, because there is all this guidance. 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:13.000 So I really recommend Google it. IC, 25, dash 1, 4. It should come straight up. 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:27.000 And it's it's definitely worth your time to read that, because it may answer a lot of other questions that people have about how, why we structured the rule the way we did John, did you have any other? 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:34.000 Input there before I sort of bring up the draft rule itself. 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:35.000 Nope, that sounds good. Yeah. 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:46.000 Okay, I I guess for some background information. There are 9 other states that have continuing education requirements for licensed geologists or professional geologists. 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:47.000 And excuse me, they're requirements. 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:56.000 Range from it's anywhere from sort of 12 to 15 h a year. 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:59.000 Roughly. Excuse me, one of the trickier elements with Indiana is that we have a tri annual renewal period. 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:14.000 It's every 3 years, not every 2 years. So that's, you know, can make some of the accounting a little bit different for us. 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:22.000 But that's why we had in the draft rule sort of 12 h per annum cause. 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:28.000 That's similar to what other states that have continuing education for geologists. 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:29.000 And it's also similar to what say the professional engineers surveyors, and so on. 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:41.000 Here require in Indiana. Let me share. 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.000 The. 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:48.000 Draft rule. 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:55.000 Okay, can we see that? 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:58.000 Can you see that, John? Sorry, I'll just confirm it. 00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:59.000 Yeah, yeah, it's good. 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:01.000 's sharing. Okay? Good. Okay. So this is the draft rule that for continuing education for Indiana, Geo. 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:13.000 Licensed, professional geologist that was sent around to the Lpg. 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:19.000 Lists serve last week, and just a general overview. 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:26.000 What we used as a basis for this was the professional surveyors continuing education rule. 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:30.000 It was a pretty simple rule to use to start out with. 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:35.000 There are a lot of very specific subsections that applied just to surveyors that we obviously removed. 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:41.000 But that's what we started with as our model here. 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:51.000 So that's what this is modeled from. And we our AIM here was to have a rule that was not hyper specific. 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:52.000 That's why there's no say lists of approved organizations or anything included in here. 00:17:52.000 --> 00:18:11.000 Because we wanted it to stay flexible, and also in accordance with 25, 1, 4, but also to give the the Lpg. 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:30.000 Board the room, to move, to make decisions on this. So in the world of, I guess from from statute to real-world application, you go from statute to rule, based on statute to a practice of the rule, and a lot of those practice elements such as you know, will this field trip. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:35.000 qualify that's something that's not gonna be explicitly listed in this rule. 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:47.000 It's gonna be something that's going to be in the practice, and I'm sure there's gonna be a information page that is put up by the Lpg board. 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:53.000 That will provide more fleshed out elements of the practice. 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:58.000 As we go further through this process, but that's a pretty far down the line. 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.000 I want to emphasize that this is a draft. 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:07.000 The this is very much a draft. We that haven't even got to the formal rulemaking process. 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:20.000 This is before the rulemaking process. So what happens next is that this would go into the formal rulemaking process which itself has public notice, and I believe public hearings. 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:27.000 So. This is not the only opportunity for public input on this rule. 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:36.000 We thought it was good to give an information session before we even went into the actual formal rule, making process. 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:40.000 That is how it runs under this under State law. 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.000 So that's where we are. We are the early dri here. 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:50.000 Okay, so this is not the final final. And that's why we're seeking people's important suggestions. 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.000 John, do you have any other comments? 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:57.000 Do we wanna just scroll through this guy? 4. 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:01.000 No, exactly. I mean, I think it's I think you're. 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:06.000 You know, we felt like this meeting was a chance to share this information. 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:24.000 Share how we got to the point. We are the where we are, and for us to be able to receive some comments and questions, and we hope that we intend to, you know, try and answer all the questions that we get, we it's not, likely we can answer them all 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.000 Hmm! 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:28.000 tonight. But we feel like we'll take them back. 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:41.000 Look at them and then try and through the Listserv and maybe posting on the Lpg website will try and provide answers to questions that we're received during this virtual meeting. 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:52.000 I do know 1 one thing one element, or a couple of elements that have popped up as earlier questions, that I think we can provide answers to. 00:20:52.000 --> 00:21:12.000 There was some request about whether there was an ability to provide a waiver on requiring cu, that, according to our legal adviser for the Board, that is not the case, we cannot provide a wave, your waiver, or a grandfathering element. 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:21.000 I guess would be another way of phrasing that basically, if somebody has a hardship issue with completing C use, I would have to apply for hardship. 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:29.000 Waiver to the board, and again I see 25, 1, 4 has guidelines for hardship, waivers. 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:48.000 Another element, I think, was comments on whether or not we license professional geologists have an enactive status, and we do not currently have an inactive status spelled out as part of the statute, and from what I understand from the legal advice given 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:54.000 to the the Lpg. Board in order to have an inactive status it would have to be written into the statute. 00:21:54.000 --> 00:22:09.000 So unfortunately, at this time the professional geologist statute does not have an allowance for an inactive status, so that may be something for future statute. 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:20.000 Work, but unfortunately, right now it does not. An active status does not exist, so I know those are a couple of other questions that were had been floating out there again. 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:27.000 The layout here of the draft rule follows that of the generally of the surveyors. 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:41.000 Layout and right now it's worded as completed a minimum of 12 h of continuing education each year of the Tri annual renewal period so that's a total of 36 over 3 years. Right? 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:43.000 Now, it's where it is 12 h each year, you know, this is just how we've worded it right now. 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:54.000 This is not absolute sent in stone, but this is how we have drafted initially the 12 h per year. 00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:04.000 Thinking again came from what professional engineers do, what professional surveyors do here in the State, and what the average is for the other States. 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:10.000 In the, in the country that require ce for licensed geologists. 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:15.000 We had 1 h continuing education and professional ethics. 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.000 This is pretty standard across many industries to have a minimum requirement for some professional. 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:27.000 Ethics classes. So let's see. 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:28.000 Yeah. 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:30.000 And I'll jump in there, Rachel, too, and also make the point that we've added. 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:36.000 And this was from comments that we had received late last year or early this year. 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:43.000 We've added professional ethics or diversity, equity and inclusion, type training as well. 00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:46.000 Yeah, yeah, so college courses, you know. 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:50.000 There's a layout there on you know how many hours of credit per credit hour. 00:23:50.000 --> 00:24:16.000 Ken be used towards your Ce. This is again pretty standard from what the surveyors and the the engineers use, so we pretty much stuck to what they had as a model there, with how many hours ohce per credit hour of course, up to 6 h of continuing education 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:24.000 topics earn, but not used. In one renewal period may be applied to the hours of the next first year of the next renewal period. 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:34.000 We wanted to have some ability to do a bit of rollover in case you did a lot, of course, is in in that year, and you didn't want them to go to waste, so to speak. 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:40.000 Let's see the length of instruction hour. 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:45.000 Length, of course, 1 h continuing education must contain at least 50 min of instruction. 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:57.000 This is very standard language for continuing education. Continuing education course shall be a minimum of 1 h of instruction. 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:06.000 Credit for instructors. This, again, we modeled off the surveyors, rule 2 h, and continuing education. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:26.000 Credit will be granted per course for credit per cross credit hour for continuing education course that meets the requirement of section 5 of this rule, and then continuing education credit would only be granted for the first time an approved courses presented per license triennium the idea is that you 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:30.000 get some credit for these courses, that you are a teaching. 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:53.000 Let's see continuing education topics. We kept this very broad, because geology is a broad field, as people practicing in many different aspects of geology, and we didn't want to narrow this down and potentially lose you know, some elements of continuing education that would be available. 00:25:53.000 --> 00:26:00.000 So to qualify as continuing education under this rule, as provided for again, here it is 25, 1, 4. 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:08.000 You're gonna get tired of hearing this. But this is this is a an important document, a course must be an orderly process of instruction. 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:13.000 That is approved by an approved organization per 25, 1, 4. 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:31.000 Or the board, so that gives the Board the ability to approve things that may not be automatically, I guess, approved by under 25, 1, 4, and design, it's designed to directly enhance the license professional geologist knowledge and skill in providing geological services, relevant to the professional 00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:38.000 geology, and again we kept that broad on purpose, cause. There are people working in many different fields here. 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:49.000 Distance learning requirements. Yeah, you can. You can get all of your continuing education by distance, learning methods we didn't wanna put any restrictions on that. 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:50.000 Yeah. So we're in the era of Zoom, and everything's online. 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:58.000 So that's pretty much what that section is about. So you can do everything. 00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:02.000 You don't have to do any section of it in person. 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:17.000 If you don't wish to approval of courses, it is the license professional geologist responsibility to ensure that the courses applicable to enhancing the practice of geology. 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:25.000 Now under 25, 1, 4, certain courses are automatically approved when provided by an approved organization. 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:32.000 Assuming the subject matter, of the course is acceptable to this rule by being designed to enhance the practitioners. 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:36.000 Knowledge and skill for any course not automatically approved. 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:47.000 Under 25, one, for Leannis, Board of Licenses for per professional geologist self determined criteria for provable continuing education, instruction. 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:57.000 So that is something that you know is to be sort of further detailed as to what the Board is going to use. This criteria. 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:08.000 We did not specify them in detail in this rule again, because we didn't want to hamstring the Board in its ability to make these decisions, particularly as areas of expertise change. 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:15.000 And different areas of expertise come and go in in prominence, and technologies change. 00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:25.000 So we didn't really want to provide some really easy specific criteria that could hamstring things in the future. 00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:39.000 And Rachel. I'll just add to we hope I mean it's our intent and our hope that this serves the Lpg community this way, and you know there's you know it comes across as vague and and without detail. 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:53.000 But again our hope was that that by doing so, we can make a robust continuing a program for us in Indiana. 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:58.000 By, by, you know, have making a lot of that responseibility. 00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:13.000 You know, having a lot of that responsibility held by the Lpg board, where you know where there are knowledgeable people about what you know, what continuing edge should be and can be, and is helpful. 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:15.000 So. Thanks, Rachel. I just wanted to add that. 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.000 No, that's that's great proof, of course. 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:25.000 Completion. Yeah, you as a license professional geologist, responsible for obtaining evidence necessary to demonstrate. 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.000 That you completed your courses, and that the course met the requirements of the rule, and then you have to retain that evidence, for not less than 3 years. 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:34.000 So you complete a course. They send you the little certificate to see you. 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:44.000 Got to hang on to it for 3 years, continuing education credits not given. 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:53.000 There are some specific things we noted as not qualifying any education obtained before. 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:56.000 Like licensure licensure. Obviously motivational classes, seminars, meetings of the Lpg. 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:07.000 Board, business, social and other non educational meetings of professional groups. 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:13.000 Yeah, if you're sitting around. You know, having some beers and just yeah talking shop. 00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.000 That's sort of doesn't qualify, qualify. 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:25.000 Excuse me, staff meetings, committee work with local, state and national professional organizations, courses take freedom for a second or subsequent time. 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:50.000 During and renewal period. Course is not completed, due to dismissal by the provider for disruption of the course and then routine safety training limited, not including, but not limited to, has worshipped everyone can ask do those they do not count for your continuing education section 10 is 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:51.000 a petition for reduction of hours. This is the hardship waiver that is mentioned. 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:57.000 IC. 24, 1, 4. And that gives you the opportunity to petition for reduction. 00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:11.000 If you're unable to complete them, and it's something you would send to the board, and they would approve or deny. 00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:23.000 Compliance can can, continuing education, audits and actions regarding compliance will be conducted as provided for in 25, 1, 4, and again, I would recommend reading 25, 1, 4. 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:34.000 It provides that guidance on what happens with audits and what action, what actions the Board should should not take regarding compliance. 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:36.000 So we didn't feel the need to repeat it here. 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.000 Let's see, we're pretty much at the end, of course, credit to receive full credit for. 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:55.000 Course, the license, professionals just must be present for the entire course, and the case of continuing education obtained by college or university courses receive full credit from the course from that college or university, and then auditing courses by the board. 00:31:55.000 --> 00:32:12.000 This is just a section that surveyors had present where it gives the board the option if it's so, chooses to evaluate a course that has been your, I guess, submitted for approval. 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:17.000 It just gives them the opportunity. They are. The board is not obligated to do that, but it gives them the opportunity to do so, and that's pretty much the end of it right now. 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:33.000 And I don't know if we want to. If there's anything else you want to say, John, before we start looking at the. 00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:34.000 Stop sharing. 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:39.000 Yeah, that looks good. Thank everyone for letting us give you this background and presentation. 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:49.000 Alright. So. Q. And a time. 00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:53.000 Want me to read the questions out loud. Rachel or 2? 00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:01.000 Sure. Let's see. 00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:11.000 Not sure. 00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:14.000 You want me to go ahead, and I can see the list here. 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:15.000 Can you see it? Okay? 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:16.000 Yeah, and. 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:20.000 I can start at the top. 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:27.000 You wanna go ahead, Dean, and yeah, and. 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:33.000 Okay, first question, can stuff be added or subtracted from the list? 00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:35.000 And I'm not sure quite what that refers to. 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:38.000 Well, I guess we'll, and again we were. 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:45.000 You know, the way our meeting is set up. We're sort of taking these, and we'll run with it. 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:51.000 Let's assume that list is the the list in IC. 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:52.000 25, 1, 4. 00:33:52.000 --> 00:34:02.000 25, 1, 4 that you know, to changing that list would be changes in, but it would require rulemaking or longmaking. 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:05.000 So I don't see that happening necessarily. I mean, that would. 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:10.000 But it would be a long that would be a you know, a legislative process. 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:23.000 I think the you know my kind of conceptual answer to this would be that in practice, once we once the continuing Ed program, is going. 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:39.000 And there's information about this on the Lpg board website that there is, you know, a list, or you know, a living list with, you know, options and suggestions and opportunities for continuing it. 00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:43.000 So that I guess that's how I would take a crack at answering that. 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:48.000 Yeah, okay. 00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:52.000 Okay. And then someone said, I am currently situated in Melbourne. 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:58.000 Australia could see course offer offered, courses offered in other countries be accepted. 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:06.000 Well, I think, per the actual 20 a year. 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:20.000 The actual Senate bill. It said that continuing education requirements adopted under this section must allow a licensed professional geologist to receive full credit for continuing education courses completed in a State other than Indiana. 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:27.000 I guess technically, Australia is not. Is it state other than Indiana? 00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:35.000 Now let's see, I don't think you know, there's automatically approved organizations on the 25 one for. 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:50.000 But again, it also comes down to discretion of the board, and I think that's where that would fall under it, says any other organizational or individual approved by the Board, and I think that will be something you could submit to the boys. 00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.000 Like I'm doing this course in Australia. Does this qualify? 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:58.000 So I think there's some flexibility there for that. 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:12.000 But I that's something that we can take back to the rest of the board and confirm further in this case. 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:13.000 Okay. 00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:15.000 Okay. And then I know you don't have have to do C, E. 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.000 In Indiana. I do most of my work around, and normally like superior. 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:24.000 Well, Gsa ils G. And Aapg meetings. 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:33.000 Count. What if you organize meetings? Can you run a program and still have account as seat? 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:53.000 Yeah, if I mean, I guess my first comment here on this one is this is one that if that it would be helpful, I think for us, if we can take that one, and maybe you know rather than try and give an answer here, you know give give a written answer, that we will can share through the 00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:57.000 lists, and post to the website. The part of it. 00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:02.000 I think that I see Gsa, Gsa. 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:11.000 And I'll and I'm speaking from you mean I'm a member of the Board, but I think the the whole Board will have to decide. 00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:12.000 You know. Will Gsa. Meetings and a Apg. 00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:15.000 Meetings and other professional organizations in their meetings. 00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:31.000 I, my sense is, they will, and I feel like that. 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:32.000 Yeah. 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:35.000 Even that's even part of IC. 25, 1, 4, where, when it speaks of national organizations, of practitioners, and I think that's that's well, you know. 00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:42.000 Well within that definition, and my expectation is that those attendance, those meetings is gonna qualify. 00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:52.000 Yeah, I I would second that. I know that it's not explicitly noted in the rule at this point in the draft rule, such as it stands. 00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:59.000 But that wasn't meant to be, I guess, an omission meaning it doesn't count again. 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:04.000 I think, under approved organizations in IC. 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:09.000 25, 1, 4. That these would count. I mean, these are sign organizations. 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:16.000 And it's it's educational to go to these meetings next question. 00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:22.000 Okay, currently as an environmental geologist, I have 5 other certificates that require continuing education. 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:28.000 These licenses include things like safety. Wastewater, lead, asbestos, etc. 00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:34.000 Well, these classes be accepted as continuing it for the Indiana geology. 00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:40.000 That's probably how to answer specific, perhaps on a more general level. 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.000 I think we've had some other questions outside this zoom. 00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:45.000 Webinar, if you're doing classes. C. E. 00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.000 For other licenses like, and they would also qualify. 00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:59.000 Would you? Could they qualify for geologists? And I think the answer is, yes, it's yeah. 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:06.000 We're not really in a position to specifically named courses. 00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:10.000 I. It's something that would have to. 00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:16.000 Yeah, the board would probably have to decide on, but. 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:22.000 Yeah. And I'll add, I mean, I think, on the one of the one of the items in the list, their safety. 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:29.000 I think you know the draft rule right now. Isn't encouraging, for say that you know we understand there are all you know in in well, at least in the environmental industry. 00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:48.000 Often has whopper requirements. That and we have we in this draft have felt that that was, you know, that that wouldn't be included as training. 00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:54.000 That could help satisfy. Yeah. Professional licensing. 00:39:54.000 --> 00:40:00.000 Our continuing education requirements to support our license, our geology, license. 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:06.000 Yeah, yeah, definitely, that's good point on safety. 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:13.000 Okay, will there be some time of exemption for those of us that are, say, over 55. 00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:25.000 Yeah, unfortunately. There, I think I mentioned earlier, there's no real grandfathering or waiver element that is available under the statute as it is currently win. 00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:34.000 So I would have to say, probably no, at least based on the legal advice provided to the Board. So far. 00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:38.000 Okay. If attending a conference which offers continuing education credits. 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:44.000 Should a person ask if they will be accepted prior to attending? 00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:50.000 I'll start, I guess, and my thought on that is that you know we don't. 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.000 We don't necessarily know, but I think that's square in, you know. 00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:01.000 Right now we're working on these brack rules, and we get the rules adopted and in the regulation. 00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:06.000 But that that kind of a question, and issue to me falls right that into the okay. 00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:07.000 What's the program look like in practice? And how does the Lpg board administer it? 00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:28.000 And you know I think it's I think it's a wonderful idea that if the Lpg board can create, you know program that includes that kind of that kind of yeah, you know. 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:32.000 Option that that's really helpful for the Lpg community. 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:37.000 But I can't, you know, but I can't, just as one person. 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:50.000 I can't say that that will happen, but I think there's certainly what things will have once the rules made to Helppg board is gonna have to create some kind of great and manage a program and it'll have to address issues like that. 00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.000 And others. 00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:56.000 Yeah, Paul, the issue here is that we're so early in the process right now that some of these questions can't be fully answered right at this moment. 00:41:56.000 --> 00:42:03.000 So! 00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:09.000 Okay. Section 2 has some redundant wording. In my opinion. 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:16.000 Send your revere of the triennial renewal period is the exact same thing as saying every year. 00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:17.000 This? 00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:29.000 Yeah, they could be considered redundant. Yeah, I think we just want to emphasize that it is a triangle period. Most of the places is by any of it point taken. 00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:30.000 Yep. 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:31.000 Okay. I don't see anything else outside of standard C courses for those of us who are faculty. 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:40.000 Will we be able to gain coo for doing original research? 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:49.000 And either presenting it as a at a conference, or publishing in peer-reviewed journal. 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:57.000 So, I think that's something that has been raised by other individuals, and maybe something we need to take back to the committee to talk about. 00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:07.000 I think I was just looking at the engineers, and I think they do have an element for paper publishing so I think that's something here that we need to consider. 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:15.000 In the committee definitely is a good suggestion, for sure. 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.000 I agree. 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:26.000 Okay? Has the board considered starting out with the requirement of 3 h per year to enable everyone to get up to speed? 00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:30.000 That's a nice idea. The problem is that this is gonna be. 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:48.000 This is one of the things we do have to specify in the rule, and that if we try to start out with 3 and then we have to go back through the rulemaking process to change it in the in the future, and the rulemaking process is you know, 12 to 18 months process, so not really an 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:53.000 option! 00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:59.000 Okay, well, see us be observed and accepted that are approved by other States. 00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:03.000 Licensing agencies that require Ceos. 00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:05.000 I, I would think so. Yeah. 00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:10.000 I would think so in general, also, yeah. 00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:11.000 Okay, what if someone is permanently disabled? Can they do a permanent hardship? 00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:19.000 Waiver, or at least a reduction to require. 00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:38.000 I think that's gonna be at this, at the discretion of the license professional geologist board I don't think we can give an absolute answer to that right now, but there's flexibility there, they're hardship waivers for the board to 00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:43.000 make decisions along those lines. 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:49.000 Does teaching a course or publishing count towards C. Credits. 00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:59.000 Suddenly in the drop rule. It does provide for, and I'm just scrolling over here. 00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:00.000 Yeah. 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:20.000 Credit for instructors. Again, it says, 2 h of continuing education credit will be granted per credit per course, credit hour for a continuing education course that meets the requirements of rule, but it will only be granted for the first time that approved course is presented per license trian try 00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:21.000 Okay. 00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:23.000 any of is how it's currently stated so definitely, there is some credit for teaching courses. 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:28.000 And as for the publishing, that's something I think we need to talk about in the committee. 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:29.000 Yeah. 00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:30.000 Yeah, it's potential. 00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:37.000 Okay, just Illinois, Kentucky and Tennessee currently have ce requirements. 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:46.000 I know Illinois does not right now. 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:47.000 I don't think Tennessee does, either. I'm sorry I'm looking for a list here, because the Pg. 00:45:47.000 --> 00:46:07.000 A Pgi folks compiled a list, so I don't think those 3 States do at the present time, I thought can was working on one in the recent years, but I'm not sure. 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:08.000 I! 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:17.000 Okay. The draft requires continuing it each year. The statute for surveyors and engineers are per by inning, which coincides with the renewal periods. 00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:22.000 Why not mirror that to coincide with the license period? 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:23.000 I think that's that's a valid option. 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:37.000 And right now, as we have it, language in the draft rule, it says, 12 h per year, I think some of the thought process behind that is to sort of try and impel people to make sure you keep up on it. 00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:44.000 But as has been noted, very, you know, explained well that sometimes that's not always possible. 00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:52.000 So I guess there is a possibility it could be like 36 per tranium, I think, is what they're getting out there, John. 00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:53.000 I don't know if you wanna jump in there. 00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:55.000 I'd I'd agree with what you said. 00:46:55.000 --> 00:47:12.000 I mean we it did come up in our discussions, and I think, and I don't have it in front of me, but I think some others states the license what they have ce requirements for licensed geologists are biennial. 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:13.000 Hmm! 00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:26.000 but still still specify an annual requirements, and but to repeat what we said fundamentally, we kind of felt that it was. 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:42.000 We hope it's helpful. It may not feel helpful, but we hope it's helpful for everybody keeping up with the CEO requirements. 00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:49.000 Okay, if I take a technical presentation, sorry, make a technical presentation to a geological and petroleum engine society. 00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:55.000 Do I get credit for the professional research and the one-hour presentation to the audience. 00:47:55.000 --> 00:48:08.000 I'm in another jurisdiction, and I've been an audit over the over the year a number of times, and find the CEO spreadsheet offered by some of the professional organizations quite useful. 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:19.000 I think this comes back again to us, talking in the continuing at committee about bringing in like some credit hours for presentation related items. 00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:20.000 The other section they're talking about other professional organizations with Cu spreadsheets. 00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.000 Yes, that's definitely a next thing, and we are open to people. 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:36.000 Have, see you spreadsheets they are using for themselves, for other licenses. 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:47.000 Please share them with us, because that's the next thing is like, you know, we would like to provide useful examples of how to document your see, you know this, is this is new for Indiana. 00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:48.000 Yeah. 00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:53.000 So if you have some good working examples, please send them in. 00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:54.000 Excuse me. 00:48:54.000 --> 00:49:02.000 An environment and environmental consultation. If you don't keep up with new procedures or steady, you will be left at the curb right? 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:10.000 Now I am watching webinars on Youtube regarding sequence triggers, and how it applies to the environmental field. 00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:17.000 I'm not sure if that's more commentary, then question I'm not. 00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:18.000 Okay. 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:19.000 I'm not really sure what to say about that one. 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:20.000 Well, and I think it may get to the you know, to in practice. 00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:28.000 Once the programs established and Lpg board is is involved with. 00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:34.000 You know what what qualifies is this continuing at? 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:43.000 I think the Board will have to start understanding some of those instructional resources and trying to. You know. 00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:51.000 Maybe say, you know, say ahead of time that yeah, these are approvable, or these have been approved. 00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:55.000 Yeah. Let's see. 00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:00.000 Okay. I am also A, P. E. Is it correct to assume that any continuing education which satisfies both? 00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:08.000 PE and pager requirements can be claimed for both disciplines. 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:13.000 I believe so. Least that's my understanding. But. 00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:24.000 And I would say I would say in general, I think that would be true, although I guess I would call it a little bit to say that you know that. 00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:28.000 Some education that is highly useful in an engineering context. 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:35.000 It might be a stretch to say, Well, is this a applicable? 00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:41.000 And you know, for the geology, profession. 00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:42.000 Yeah. 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:45.000 Now I don't. You know. I I don't know, but I I'm not saying at all that there isn't a huge amount of overlap. 00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:53.000 I think there is, but but I think you couldn't necessarily say everything. 00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:56.000 Yeah. 00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:05.000 Okay, would federal program training on Essex and inclusion count or just requirement? 00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:06.000 Thank you. Good question. Yeah. 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:11.000 I wouldn't believe. So that yeah, I think I think it would as long as you know, meets the I guess approval requirements. 00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:18.000 Federal. I don't think that would be a problem. 00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:26.000 Okay. So the instructor section also applies to faculty teaching semester long courses. 00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:31.000 Yeah, I believe so. 00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:36.000 And then 12 credit. Pdh. Slash year is excessive per 3 year. Period. 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:42.000 Cost availability of online courses, ours, the Pdhr. 00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:49.000 Per credit. Our most online courses for one credit error takes about 8 h to complete. 00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:57.000 I'm working, and not a single student to spend all week in attendance of a class in order to get the peak Dhs need to change criteria. 00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:58.000 Most of this state had 2,000 plus Pg. Personnel. 00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:07.000 Now the State has only 200 plus personnel, because criteria is too expensive to time. 00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:17.000 Consuming is hard to complete any recommendation to change courses and subject matter. 00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:23.000 Well the 12 h per year again, is based on what other professional licenses in the State require. 00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:30.000 Professional engineers, actually, I think, do 15 a year for 30 over a biennium. 00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:40.000 I think the surveyors are 12. Excuse me, 12 h a year, 24 h per biennium, the average for the other States that are required ce for their license. 00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:48.000 Geologists was also range from 12 to 16 sort of hours per year. 00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:52.000 So I don't think we're out of out of line with other professions. 00:52:52.000 --> 00:53:08.000 Other professional licensed Folks I think there are a lot of online courses available now for low cost or free that can help fill this role. 00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:12.000 So I'm not sure what else to say. But that's where we come with the 12 h. 00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:19.000 Oh, yeah, I guess I would only add that I think to our philosophy or intention. 00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:39.000 Is that you know that a credit, and then an hour is 50 min, and if you're in something that's, you know, 8 8 h, I think to yeah. I mean, there's a lot of definitions about, you know. 00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:49.000 Continuing at units. Pd. Hs, all that stuff, but I think we've we've only just in in the current draft rule. 00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:54.000 It's just well, can you know, I think, how do we say to continue net hours? 00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:09.000 50 min. And and so we, you know, we hope we hope that that helps solve that that dilemma a little bit. 00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:10.000 Yeah. 00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.000 Yeah, I don't know if there's a bit of a confusion between credit hour and continuing education hour, because these can mean different things. Anyway. 00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:21.000 I laid a monthly 30 min meeting for geologist and environmental scientists talking about sops for sampling. 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:31.000 Next meeting will be about the soil classification systems. How does that equate to those sees? 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:36.000 I guess you'd be I don't. I'm not sure that one is a bit tricky to answer right now. 00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:44.000 I think we need to take that one back to the board and see what, when the answer would be. 00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:45.000 But yeah, I agree, it might bump up against. 00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:46.000 I mean, we have made a minimum in in the draft rule. 00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:52.000 There's a minimum that you know. Credit. He's gonna have. 00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:55.000 It's an hour. Yeah. 00:54:55.000 --> 00:55:00.000 So I would have to rustle with that a little bit. 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:03.000 Okay, how long will it take to approve a class? 00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:19.000 6 million dollar question that one I don't have an answer for and I don't want to speak for the rest of the board, so that oh, then, just say generically, hopefully, not really long. 00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:33.000 But that is a process that still gonna have to be worked out, that the so that the board, you know, has has has a reasonable time window to approve something, but not take an extended period of time. 00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:34.000 That's about as specific as I can get right now. 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:39.000 I'm afraid. 00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:40.000 Okay. Will there be a requirement that the Board has to create public guidelines for? 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:50.000 How the Board will determine if a course qualifies. 00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:58.000 I think. Hang on. Sorry we bring up what I was looking at here now. 00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:11.000 Certainly the board is required on the statute set forth the conditions, requirements, and implementation of the program I think it's gonna be useful, for you know, the Board's gonna have to work out a guideline that they need to use and this. 00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:12.000 I don't see any reason not to make that public. 00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:20.000 I guess, on the board website as a guideline that can help inform Lpgs. 00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:32.000 I mean is, you know, what would the law that was passed says that the Board, it's the obligation of the Board to set forth conditions, requirements, and implementation of a continuing education program so that. 00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:39.000 Yeah. So it would say, yes. Ultimately. 00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:46.000 Okay. If legal. Says an inactive status is not allowable by statute, then does the board have issue? 00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:50.000 Going back to the General Assembly, and enacting that the certification process has been in effect for over 40 years. 00:56:50.000 --> 00:57:04.000 There will otherwise be untold numbers of individuals who are elderly, not practicing, and who lose their license with the lack of an and inactive status. 00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:21.000 There will also be a significant revenue impact due to the loss of so many paying license renewal, who cannot renew as inactive, that will likely raise fees significantly upon active Lpgs, not to mention the slap in the face to those older Lpgs who 00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:26.000 are highly respected, and did so much for the profession to send them away. 00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:32.000 Looking at the list of Lpgs. There are many who were licensed initially in the early 19 eighties. 00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:35.000 I'm sure they are proud to be an Lpg. 00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:49.000 If the Board is the Board willing to make Senator Stereo. It was also a surveyor whose profession has an inactive status aware, and ask him to fix this by providing authority for an inactive status. 00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:50.000 Certainly the inactive status is an issue, and I realize it's important to a lot of people. 00:57:50.000 --> 00:58:06.000 The board? Is not the group to go back to the Legislature I think that's kind of out of our we'll help with that. 00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:10.000 It is an unfortunate element of how that statute is currently written. 00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:17.000 And I I think that becomes the purview of other folks in the Lpg community. 00:58:17.000 --> 00:58:23.000 If that needs to be corrected so. But it's not. 00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:24.000 The Board is not in the position to do that. 00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:33.000 He wasn't the Board who modified the statute last year with the Cu requirement. 00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:37.000 That's we're not allowed to do. That will be my understanding. 00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:53.000 That's my understanding, too, is that the Board is is there to administer the Lpg program in Indiana, but not to advocate for policies. 00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:57.000 Hmm! 00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:09.000 Well, they're be any independent projects allowed. I often lead Illinois State trips up north and do non-paid projects in the Upper Peninsula, Minnesota, and Ontario. 00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:16.000 Under 25, 1, 4. There is an option under a approved organization that says any any other organization or individual. 00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:27.000 Approved by the board. I believe this. There's opportunity for that under board. Approval. 00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:35.000 That's part of the reason why we want to give the Board the flexibility to say yay on 8 to stuff like this. 00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:41.000 Okay, okay, how do you claim ces for study? Online? 00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:43.000 That's gonna depend on. Who is the purveyor of the sees? And that's something that we deal with already. 00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:52.000 Some of them do offer. You know Cu and Pdh. 00:59:52.000 --> 01:00:00.000 Certificates. So you're gonna need some sort of proof there from from that online provider. 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:04.000 I believe. 01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:11.000 Why was it determined? The safety training is not an acceptable training course. 01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:12.000 Certainly for the environmental world. Everyone has to do their hashopper refresher regardless. 01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:27.000 So, you know, 8 h a year. So it's kind of it's not really continuing education so much as it is a safety recertification. 01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:32.000 And that's kind of why we didn't want to include it. 01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:41.000 I mean, I'll add, it's certainly part of our professional lives, especially in the environmental field. 01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:42.000 Amshaw, yeah. 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:51.000 But I think also in you know, mining, I suppose oil gas, I think throughout it throughout you know, there's probably not an industry in the nation, where health and safety isn't. 01:00:51.000 --> 01:01:01.000 Isn't part of their look at the professional lives of people, and so it was difficult to say that it's that it, you know. 01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:04.000 It's so general and broad that it's difficult to say. 01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:16.000 Well, it really it really is. It supports our lives as geologists and geoscientists. 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:19.000 So, and I believe that you know similar to the survey as role. 01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:29.000 They don't I don't accept that sort of standard thing, and some of the other licensed geology requirements in other States. 01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:32.000 Alright! What's next? 01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:33.000 Okay, what about attendance to relevant professional conferences? 01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:39.000 Such as aipg. 01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:43.000 Yeah. Okay. A Ipg, Jeff, yeah. 01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:44.000 Yeah. 01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:46.000 Okay. Sorry. Yes, sir. Yeah. I think again, this is going back to. 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:54.000 We already had the other question is something we need to take back to the committee to discuss about whether we want to explicitly include that in the rule or whatnot. 01:01:54.000 --> 01:02:02.000 So I think we'll probably skip over further questions of that nature, now that we've sort of come across it a few times. 01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:12.000 Okay. Did you skip over a paragraph that states that there must be a graded exam for the credit courses? 01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:17.000 How do we do it? The passing grade? 01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:23.000 Let me find that here. I know that was. 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:31.000 Proof. Sorry I knew I had that here somewhere. 01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:39.000 Cool credit, I assume you're talking about great exempts for credit courses, and I assume by credit cards you mean courses by an accredited college or university. 01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:44.000 That's how I'm interpreting this. 01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:47.000 There is a section under that. It says course credit in the case of continuing edges obtained by college or university courses. 01:02:47.000 --> 01:03:00.000 Receive the. You must receive the full credit for the course from that college or university which you like. 01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:05.000 That's you get full credit. Then you obviously have to have a passing grade. 01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:11.000 I would assume so. 01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:12.000 It's in. It's in there. Sorry. 01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:18.000 Okay, for Documentation, Okay for documentation must be in c certificate. 01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:20.000 Or could documentation, participation in a conference with list of seminars? 01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:27.000 Attendants, suffice not all conferences, provide. 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:47.000 Yeah, and this is an issue. Is that not all elements that may qualify as CEO necessarily give you a little fancy certificate, saying, You have to see you hours, and that's something, I think, in the practice that we are going to need to write up as as a process 01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:48.000 Yeah. 01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:57.000 for the board. And so yeah, there's there's gonna have to be alternatives to here, just to see certificate. 01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:08.000 Okay, it appears that only do or required examination. Is that correct in person seminars or training courses would face no similar requirement. 01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:19.000 We're not sure that would be equitable, especially for those it may be required to complete their continuing education via distance, learning. 01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:26.000 Members of the armed forces, those who may be in remote field locations for extended time, etc. 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:31.000 And I think you're referring to Section 6, where it talks about distance, learning requirements. 01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:47.000 And it does have a section in there that notes include at the end of the course an examination that is graded by the provider, and it sort of doesn't expressly, I think, note that in other sections right now, that is I don't John go ahead sorry. 01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:56.000 Well, I would jump in to say, this is an interesting comment, and that may be one that the communication should consider. 01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:59.000 Yeah, yeah, we might need to relocate that language. 01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:03.000 Yeah, yeah. 01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:13.000 Okay, the exam requirement is unusual. Many webinars that offer CEO, do not include an exam. 01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:15.000 It's kind of in the similar vein. 01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:16.000 Okay. 01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:17.000 Yeah. 01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:20.000 The similar issue. Yeah, we probably need to reconsider that, and that you're right. 01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:21.000 Yeah. 01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:23.000 There's a lot that darn. I'll have a little quiz. Sorry. 01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:24.000 Yeah. 01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:26.000 Okay, this person said, thanks for your presentation. When item does these quarters? 01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:38.000 Webinars, and they provide C, E. U. With these apply to the geologist licenses. 01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:41.000 I can't believe. So. Yeah. 01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:45.000 The ones I've been familiar with. I would imagine so again. 01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:47.000 It's kind of, you know. It gets. It's still down a little bit in the future. 01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:56.000 Here, once the programs in place. And and the you know, the actual practices is being defined. 01:05:56.000 --> 01:06:01.000 But yeah, I would imagine it's likely. 01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:08.000 How will Ceos relate to Pdh's? 01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:13.000 I think there's like some rule of thumbs out there for converting the 2. 01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:17.000 I I could not say off the top of my head right now. 01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:31.000 And we didn't. You know we've we've kind of tried to keep it simple with just, you know, an instruction hour, 1 h will continue in education. 01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:33.000 Yeah. 01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:49.000 And so we've we've. So we've I don't know we haven't really necessarily been highly explicit, but certainly implied here that we're kinda trying to work that this program here in Indiana sort of works in units of hours and I think I hope you 01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:53.000 know hopefully, we're consistent, that. 01:06:53.000 --> 01:07:01.000 A 1 h of continuing education must include at least 50 min, but then also that then you know that impacts. 01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:06.000 And then that essentially is you're gonna need 12 of those per year. 01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:12.000 That's something kinda like that, and then it gets a lot more complex. 01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.000 If we start throwing in other units in there. 01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:19.000 Yeah. 01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:20.000 Okay. 01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:24.000 Do you expect attendance at conferences like 8 dot a will be approved for continuing education. 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:27.000 Again. That's the sort of the conference related question, and we'll have to get back to you guys on that one. 01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:33.000 With more committee discussions. 01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:45.000 How is auditing a relevant course, handled where one attended the instruction, but did not pay to obtain credit for, necessarily completed any testing associated with the course. 01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:49.000 Oh, that's a good one! 01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:53.000 Yeah, I think we're gonna have to talk through that one. 01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:54.000 Okay. Yeah. I don't think I have an answer off the top. 01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:55.000 Yeah. 01:07:55.000 --> 01:08:03.000 I would. Well, and I mean I guess the current draft rule is not too encouraging about that, at least with respect to college courses. 01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:05.000 Hmm, yeah, that's true. 01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:19.000 Where we. I think we have the current draft as as it reads for college courses, is auditina, you know, semester long course wouldn't would not be. 01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:20.000 Considering. 01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:33.000 True. Yeah, yeah. Under section 12. In the case of continuing education, obtained by college university courses receive full credit for the course from that college and university. 01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:34.000 Yeah. 01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:36.000 So that would probably lean against that one somewhat. 01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:42.000 Those things. Examination, requirement apply to all courses, or only courses delivered by distance, learning. 01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:44.000 Yeah, it's kind of a repeat of that other question. 01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:50.000 Yeah. 01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:51.000 Yeah. 01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:53.000 And this is a good catch and definitely something we need to discuss and get back to everyone with an answer on that one. 01:08:53.000 --> 01:09:04.000 How is the attendance to an all day or longer geology? Field trip handled slash, qualified as meriting Ceos? 01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:05.000 Kind of again it kind of gets to what will the practice look like? 01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:25.000 And and we did. There was some discussion in the committee about field trips specifically, but I think you know, we, as I say, we it came up and we talked a little bit about it, but we've kind of said well, that we think that has to be dealt with in as 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:31.000 part of the of setting up the program. Once the regulation is in place, we've and, you know, to repeat ourselves. 01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:35.000 We've tried to be in some ways. We've tried to be non-specific about that. 01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:45.000 In the, in the regulation, so that it gives us some some flexibility for the board to, you know. 01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:52.000 Consider as broadly as they can what can qualify. 01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:59.000 Why is there no provision for publishing a paper in a peer reviewed journal, or professional publications? 01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:00.000 Again, this is something I think we need to discuss with the continuing Edge Committee. 01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:10.000 You know, it's something we might want to consider in the draft rule. 01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:11.000 What? 01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:16.000 So I think we'll skip over further questions regarding paper publishing, for now. 01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:17.000 Hmm! 01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:18.000 But I guess I would add though, Rachel, I agree, I agree. 01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:27.000 But then you know the idea, the question well, is it something that it should be in the regulation, or is is that also the kind of question that you say? 01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:31.000 Well that you know that can be handled by the Lpg. 01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:38.000 Board, you know, because they can. Basically, they have the approval, anyway. 01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:42.000 So, yeah. But I think we do have to discuss it some more. 01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:44.000 That's okay. 01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:56.000 To be clear. Serving on a board of of a professional geology organization, or a board for the advancement of Geology does not count towards continuing education. 01:10:56.000 --> 01:11:09.000 Yeah, currently as as it's written under Section 9 of the draft rule meetings, sorry business, social and other non educational meetings of professional groups or subgroups do not count towards continuing. 01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:15.000 Education or would not. Yeah meetings of the Lpg board also? 01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:16.000 But yeah. 01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:17.000 Well, and even meet. Yeah. And meetings of the board. Yeah, yeah. 01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:18.000 How active and responsive will the Board be at approving. Ce. 01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:24.000 They don't meet that often. 01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:34.000 It's true that currently the fixed meetings are twice a year, but that is something with the practice that the board is gonna have to hammer out. 01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:41.000 And again, John and I can't really speak on behalf of the rest of the board at this point. 01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:42.000 Hmm! 01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:48.000 This is a practice they need to put together to make sure it is decent response. 01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:55.000 Okay, when a attending professional meetings, professional engineering credits are clearly identified in a certificate provides. 01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:59.000 Will you be providing this? 01:11:59.000 --> 01:12:05.000 Will you be providing this at professional meetings, like professional engineers and surveyors? 01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:11.000 Do you do? Since you are modeling this after Pls license? 01:12:11.000 --> 01:12:22.000 That's gonna be the, I think the provider of the edge of the meeting, and the course has to provide that not not the Lpg board. 01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:29.000 Or see use, roll over for the following year could more than 6 h be rolled over or applied to the previous year. 01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:36.000 For example, of course taken in year 2 of the 3 year renewal period, that is, 38 h of instruction. 01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:39.000 Could that apply to year one and 3? 01:12:39.000 --> 01:12:40.000 So I think this comes back to the question of Is it gonna be 12 h per year or 30? 01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:49.000 6 h per any. 01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:51.000 So John! 01:12:51.000 --> 01:13:02.000 Well, I think maybe some more discussion of the committee with that kind of you know of that of that comment. 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:08.000 And Indiana Society of Mining and Reclamation Annual Meeting would be another example of meetings that would be relevant. 01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:14.000 Professional engineers regularly attend and use these hours for credit. 01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:17.000 Yeah, again, I think that comes back to the conference rooms. 01:13:17.000 --> 01:13:25.000 Slash meetings. If there's an educational, if if it's a business meeting, no, but I think there's potential, there. 01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:26.000 Yeah. 01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:27.000 So let's see. 01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:31.000 Can you expand on the instructor? Ce. I often do. 01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:34.000 Presentations at different conferences, oriented on the same topic. 01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:41.000 Does this count? 01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:53.000 So different yeah, those presentations at conferences. Again, I think that's maybe a bit different from how it's currently dripped in the role that's talking about instructors. 01:13:53.000 --> 01:13:58.000 Of credit hour, I think courses so again, if that's more like you're presenting it. 01:13:58.000 --> 01:14:07.000 Conferences, or teaching a worship at a conference. 01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:11.000 I think that that's a different section. 01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:13.000 There than the instructor section. And we need to talk about that again. 01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:25.000 The whole presenting, I think, presenting at conferences and publishing papers are things the topics that we're gonna take back to. 01:14:25.000 --> 01:14:28.000 Continuing at committee here. So. 01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:37.000 I guess we did. You know the draft rule does, and this may be I don't know if this was adapted from the surveyors, but. 01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:48.000 The credit for instructors is limited to. They can get credit. 01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:49.000 Hmm! 01:14:49.000 --> 01:14:51.000 C. Credit only the first time you give a course per per license. 01:14:51.000 --> 01:15:04.000 Triennium. So I think that's you know, it gets to this question if it's the same presentation over and over, I think you know, as the current rule reads, you know, it. 01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:18.000 The board, you know, with the expectation is that they would only be continuing, as you education, credit for that for instruction of of that course just once for renewal period. 01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:25.000 Hmm! 01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:26.000 Sorry I had to get back up. Why is committee service completely excluded? 01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:45.000 Participation in Aipgs Dei Committee requires our disputes to develop language and policies that govern professional members and conduct at professional meetings along with developing the processes to address accusations of bad behavior. 01:15:45.000 --> 01:16:00.000 This seems like professional development to me. 01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:02.000 I'm not sure how to address that directly. 01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:07.000 Well, and this one may be one that we need to talk about as a committee some more. 01:16:07.000 --> 01:16:14.000 Yeah, I I don't. I guess Rachel and I may. 01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:31.000 I don't know. During the past months we talked much about the Exclusion, talked about serving on committees, whether it's a you know, a Dei committee, or or you know other committees of professional organizations. 01:16:31.000 --> 01:16:32.000 So! 01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:38.000 Yeah, I'm just not sure if that really that kind of work fulfills the spirit of continuing education. 01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:39.000 And that's probably why it's generally excluded. 01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:44.000 But is something we can definitely talk with the committee about. 01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:53.000 Yeah, yeah. 01:16:53.000 --> 01:17:02.000 Will, P. E. And Pl. C. Credits count towards these. Pgc. 01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:10.000 I guess I'll just share the kind of a similar answer that I think there's some certainly can be overlap, especially with engineering. 01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:16.000 I don't know if there would be as much overlap with survey or continuing education. 01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:24.000 Content. But you know, I think I mean the answer would be yes, to the extent possible, but I think it has. 01:17:24.000 --> 01:17:30.000 You know the edit what does overlap has to meet. 01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:38.000 You know the requirement, the idea that a serving or? 01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:49.000 You know, aiding professional development in in geosciences, and and your geologic part of your profession. 01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:55.000 Sorry. Well, webinars, without final exams, be acceptable as credit. 01:17:55.000 --> 01:18:08.000 Yeah, again, that's the topic we, I think we're gonna take back to the committee here is like, what about courses that don't have quizzes or exams, so can't really answer that right now, excuse me. 01:18:08.000 --> 01:18:09.000 Okay. I'm interested in the protocols for board decisions for training approvals. 01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:19.000 Both sources of training and content, of training. What is the anticipated turnaround time for decisions? 01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:22.000 So one does not complete training, but does not count or bother getting documentation. 01:18:22.000 --> 01:18:29.000 Of completion, if it will not count, will there be a meal for requesting decisions? 01:18:29.000 --> 01:18:42.000 Will decisions be AD hoc are only during board meetings. 01:18:42.000 --> 01:18:43.000 Yeah. 01:18:43.000 --> 01:18:45.000 So I mean, that comes down to the practice, and the board itself is gonna have to set some processes here. That's in addition to the drop rule documents. 01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:48.000 Yeah. All good questions. 01:18:48.000 --> 01:18:54.000 Yeah, yeah, this is part of what the board's gonna have to take into account for that practice element. 01:18:54.000 --> 01:19:16.000 And I. And I guess I would say, Yeah, we consciously have tried to leave some of those answers to those kinds of questions out of the regulations, because we feel like it can be more flexible and done just by the board. 01:19:16.000 --> 01:19:24.000 Will there be a consideration of the cost to small businesses, when determining what courses will qualify? 01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:35.000 Certainly the point of see you isn't, too, you know, require, you put put it on to burden financial burden on people, individuals or companies. 01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:41.000 So that's why we are pretty broad with what we've listed is continuing education. 01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:50.000 And again it comes back to 25, 1, 4 says any other organizations or individual proved by the Board. 01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:52.000 I think the general notion is that this is gonna be. 01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:57.000 We want this to be widely available to folks. 01:19:57.000 --> 01:20:01.000 So of all means. 01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:02.000 And I'll second. I know. Rachel said it. 01:20:02.000 --> 01:20:12.000 I had heard. I've heard anecdotally, also that many, many continuing courses in the in the geological sciences are are available free. 01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:16.000 Hmm! 01:20:16.000 --> 01:20:17.000 Okay. 01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:26.000 Okay, another. I think we can skip the paper question again. If we've kind of done a bunch of paper questions. 01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:31.000 Okay. Please. Summarize time intervals, if any, between. 01:20:31.000 --> 01:20:36.000 Okay, I can. I can let him know about the 3 year. 01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:37.000 Yeah. 01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:40.000 There are a lot of references to taking courses, but not much mention about attending technical presentations. 01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:53.000 At professional association meetings. Please make that clear in the rules that technical presentations at professional association meetings will apply to Ce. 01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:57.000 Yeah, again, that's the attending meetings, elements. 01:20:57.000 --> 01:21:08.000 So again, we'll take that to the committee. So I think we can skip any further questions about meetings or papers. 01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:09.000 Will, the Lpg. Be required to submit? 01:21:09.000 --> 01:21:21.000 CEO credits annually, or only during their Tri annual licensing renewal period. 01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:27.000 That's all my question. 01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:31.000 Well, I think that depends on how the committee determines it. 01:21:31.000 --> 01:21:32.000 That's true. 01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:43.000 I mean, do they have to submit credits every year, and then they have to be done by the third year, when they actually renew. 01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:44.000 Hmm! 01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:45.000 Yeah, you know, I. 01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:46.000 So that's so. I question that myself. 01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:47.000 I mean, I think, as it's written as the draft is written, and we did sort of, I think. 01:21:47.000 --> 01:21:58.000 Talk about this now. Doesn't mean that the committee can't talk about it some more, but you know, I think that the way we've written it is 12 h each year. 01:21:58.000 --> 01:21:59.000 Hmm! 01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:09.000 But submitted, you know, with your renewal submitted every 3 years. 01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:10.000 Yeah, it's a little bit of a gray area. And I think that's a question for the rest of the board. 01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:21.000 And possibly also our legal adviser. If he has some commentary on that. 01:22:21.000 --> 01:22:27.000 Okay? Well, courses from the Midwest Geoscience Group, acceptable as credit. 01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:38.000 Do they offer? Cease account? Really? Yeah, I mean, that's again getting into the nitty gritty of individual courses right now is a bit beyond the scope of this meeting. 01:22:38.000 --> 01:22:42.000 Okay, so we're down to 10 min left on the webinar. 01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:43.000 Did you wanna scroll through there? 01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:55.000 Yes, see if yeah. Let me scroll through and see if this one's on a pickout that haven't been covered. 01:22:55.000 --> 01:22:59.000 I's not a question about how's what we're our papers? 01:22:59.000 --> 01:23:04.000 There's a question that says, How will we see information be submitted to the board? 01:23:04.000 --> 01:23:10.000 And when do we have to submit it? So again, that's gonna be sort of a practice element that is yet to come. 01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:18.000 So that's something that we have to be worked out at the board, and it sort of post states this rule making process. 01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:22.000 So it's a future thing. Let's see. 01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:36.000 Now someone did note that you indicated only 9 other States require C fe for geologist doesn't disc put Indiana at a disadvantage to other States that do not require a Ce. 01:23:36.000 --> 01:23:39.000 With that in mind, would you consider lowering the credit? 01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:47.000 Our requirement is 12 h every year seems excessive, and I wouldn't initially say as a response for that one. 01:23:47.000 --> 01:23:52.000 Again. We're following the guidance of what the other States that require. 01:23:52.000 --> 01:24:03.000 Ce, for Lpgs and Pgs use, which is between 12 and 16 h a year, and also the professional engineers, and surveyors, for example, require 12 and 15 h a year across a biennium. 01:24:03.000 --> 01:24:10.000 But per year. That's roughly what it's coming out to. 01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:11.000 So I don't think it's unreasonable. 01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:22.000 To ask for 1212 h. Again we can discuss this with the committee as to whether we put Indiana geologists at a disadvantage. 01:24:22.000 --> 01:24:31.000 I would disagree. I think this actually Hello! It's Lpg element in Indiana, because we are required to do Cu, and that's part of one of the reasons why C. 01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:52.000 Ce. Was recommended for the licenses I think originally it was like, you know, pretty much every other professional group in Indiana requires some form of Ce, or at least you know, the major ones, like engineers and surveyors, and real estate agents, and so on. 01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:58.000 So I don't see it as posing a disadvantage for John. 01:24:58.000 --> 01:25:03.000 Would you have any commentary on that? Is it? 01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:13.000 No, I I agree it's and we're you know it. 01:25:13.000 --> 01:25:18.000 It's something that that the community has come to, and so now we're and it is common. 01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:27.000 And a huge number of professions, technical, scientific. 01:25:27.000 --> 01:25:39.000 We and we and we. And when we started this, when the committee formed our hope was that this is something that enhances people's professional lives and careers, you know. That's that's our hope. 01:25:39.000 --> 01:25:41.000 Yeah. Let's see, I'm scrolling through here. 01:25:41.000 --> 01:25:44.000 Oops, keep skipping. Yeah, agreed one. 01:25:44.000 --> 01:25:48.000 There was one. Can I let me jump in on one? 01:25:48.000 --> 01:25:49.000 Grab one. 01:25:49.000 --> 01:25:57.000 One question about single 3 h colleges class, and I think that gets to what I said before about. 01:25:57.000 --> 01:26:05.000 So this may be I'd like that's one that I'd like to say that we could talk more about in the commit in our community. 01:26:05.000 --> 01:26:06.000 Because I think it's maybe it highlights an inconsistency. 01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:11.000 Because I just you know, I spent. I said something about well, you know, an hour is an hour, but a 3 h. 01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:21.000 College class 3 credit, hours, you know. That's you know, a lot of hours. 01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:28.000 During this the semester, so I don't. We maybe can talk about that some more as committed. 01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:38.000 Yeah, I'm trying to scroll through a few other questions that might, we might not have touched on yet. 01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:48.000 Excuse me. 01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:51.000 I'm trying to see if something we hadn't registered just yet. 01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:56.000 That's coming up. If you see one, John, grab it. I know we really got like 5 min. 01:26:56.000 --> 01:27:19.000 Well, I know we only have 5 min left, and we are committed to to addressing all of these and then sharing sharing, you know, sharing comments and hopefully answers through the listserv and through the Lpg board website. 01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:25.000 Yes, yes, definitely. There'll be a continuing of opportunities for feedback. 01:27:25.000 --> 01:27:30.000 This is recorded, the is recorded so we can go through that sort of compile. 01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:38.000 The general topics of questions, and and provide for their feedback, and of course still send in comments and questions. 01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:39.000 Gosh! I was just there was one. I just scroll past there. 01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:46.000 I know. That's a repeating question. I think we already mentioned at the beginning. 01:27:46.000 --> 01:27:52.000 When will see requirements take effect? I think, under the reading of the statute there was like possible. 01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:58.000 Earliest date, July 2025, but probably actually a little further. 01:27:58.000 --> 01:28:02.000 A few years from that, John. I know you had an interpretation there. 01:28:02.000 --> 01:28:14.000 Hmm, I think there's some the committee, and even the Board thinks that there, that there's couple of different ways to interpret how the statute was written. 01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:20.000 But you know, potentially starts July 2025. 01:28:20.000 --> 01:28:29.000 But potentially starts July 2028. And I think that's that we're gonna resolve that all somehow be resolved. 01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:38.000 Yeah, yeah, I think we're just gonna have to get that interpretation ironed out. 01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:39.000 Yeah. 01:28:39.000 --> 01:28:45.000 We sell a legal assistant for the board, but certainly not before July 2025. 01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:46.000 I think. 01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:55.000 We? I guess I'll take an opportunity to say we would appreciate everybody's comments, questions we hope. 01:28:55.000 --> 01:29:01.000 Hope. You know this was a a new process for well, for me at least, and so. 01:29:01.000 --> 01:29:07.000 But we hope we're gonna bring a continue in a program that brings value to to our warm. 01:29:07.000 --> 01:29:09.000 Yeah, and. 01:29:09.000 --> 01:29:11.000 You know our professional lives. 01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:23.000 Yeah, yeah, and we will work on providing some answers as we can to some of the topics raised here, and then I'll take some of them back to our committee. 01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:32.000 And as this moves through the formal rulemaking process, there will definitely be public hearing and more public comment. 01:29:32.000 --> 01:29:41.000 Opportunities for people to provide input. And then the practice and and the some of the more detailed stuff people asking about the practice of the rule is something that the board as a group needs to also iron out. 01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:47.000 So! 01:29:47.000 --> 01:29:50.000 Yeah. 01:29:50.000 --> 01:29:51.000 I think that's I think we're pretty good at rapping points. 01:29:51.000 --> 01:30:04.000 So appreciate everyone attending, and all of their questions and thoughts it's definitely valuable information, and we will. 01:30:04.000 --> 01:30:10.000 We will get back to people with answers to these topics and keep moving through the process. 01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:11.000 Sorry. I think we're pretty good. Have a good, I guess it's like, Have a good evening. 01:30:11.000 --> 01:30:19.000 Have a good Thursday evening, and thank you for attending. 01:30:19.000 --> 01:30:20.000 Thank you. 01:30:20.000 --> 01:30:21.000 Bye! 01:30:21.000 --> 01:30:33.000 Thank you.